[Teaching_Composition] Re: Teaching_Composition digest, Vol 1 #1105 - 4 msgs
Charles Nelson
teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com
Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:32:21 -0400
------=_Part_4461_12282391.1159018341528
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Just a quick note. Teaching, whether ESL or non-ESL, is always a "tricky"
business and a "mixed bag." And, yes, some cultures can regard women as
having less authority than men. My impression, based on conversations with
women colleagues, is that women can be perceived as holding authority when
appealing to other values of their students, such as dressing more formally,
having a more formal classroom management style, and so on. I was at
conference last year in which most of the participants were Turkish. All who
could speak English except one presented in English. That one was a woman, I
believe a retired professor. I asked her if she addressed the audience in
Turkish for reasons of having more authority, and she said yes. I asked her
that question in part because, despite my lack of Turkish knowledge, she
came across as having authority.
Charles Nelson
On 9/21/06, teaching_composition-request@mailman.eppg.com <
teaching_composition-request@mailman.eppg.com> wrote:
>
> Send Teaching_Composition mailing list submissions to
> teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mailman.eppg.com/mailman/listinfo/teaching_composition
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> teaching_composition-request@mailman.eppg.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> teaching_composition-admin@mailman.eppg.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Teaching_Composition digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Discomfort and instructor perspectives (Charles Nelson)
> 2. Re: Discomfort and instructor perspectives (The Teach)
> 3. Re: Discomfort and instructor
> perspectives (Elizabeth Vander Lei)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> From: Charles Nelson <charles.p.nelson@gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 22:06:49 -0400
> To: teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com
> Subject: [Teaching_Composition] Discomfort and instructor perspectives
> Reply-To: teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com
>
> I agree that discomfort, as Bernard put it, can help us "to probe
> further". And I like the way that Kate would encourage students to
> enter the discourse and even make "a case for a change in the
> discourse." One point I'd like to elaborate on is the type of
> discomfort that is useful for learning.
>
> Discomfort is likely to arise whenever a student perceives him/
> herself as part of a small minority in the classroom, but that
> discomfort is a natural part of learning to reflect on one's
> perspectives. A discomfort that arises from what a student perceives
> as a denigration of his or her perspective, however, does not promote
> but silences participation and learning. (I'm not suggesting that
> anyone here is promoting that sort of discomfort.) That perception
> may be accurate or inaccurate. The point is that instructors need to
> actively and be perceived by students as actively promoting an
> environment in which a diversity of opinions is welcome, with each
> opinion considered seriously and as important for learning. Many
> students can handle themselves with respect to other students when
> the environment is supportive. The role of the teacher is crucial here.
>
> As you've noticed, I don't support instructors bringing their own
> perspectives into the classroom. I teach first-year composition to
> ESL students. Many of my students' cultures believe that to disagree
> with an instructor is to show great disrespect to the instructor. If
> I voice my opinion, their cultures restrain them from further
> exploration of issues. If I wish to encourage them to think
> critically and participate in a discourse, I have to refrain from
> interjecting my opinions, at least most of the time, and focus
> instead on the nature of the discourse that can enable students to
> participate in the academy.
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 21:28:15 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
> From: The Teach <ababion@siue.edu>
> To: teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com
> Subject: Re: [Teaching_Composition] Discomfort and instructor perspectives
> Reply-To: teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com
>
> > seriously and as important for learning. Many students can handle
> > themselves with respect to other students when the environment is
> > supportive. The role of the teacher is crucial here.
> I agree. Anytime a level of discomfort occurs during discussion, the
> instructor must model behavior and encourage mutual respect.
>
> > I teach first-year composition to ESL students. Many of my students'
> > cultures believe that to disagree with an instructor is to show great
> > disrespect to the instructor. If I voice my opinion, their cultures
> > restrain them from further exploration of issues.
>
> Of course it depends upon the particular culture, but also I suggest the
> gender of the teacher can be a factor. I have been told by female
> instructors teaching ESL classes that they are challenged as the authority
> figure and that the students do not want to accept what the female
> instructor offers in a discussion.
>
> It does not occur with all nationalities, but is something that I have
> been told more than once by the female ESL teachers.
>
> What think ye?
>
> alex
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:45:06 -0400
> From: "Elizabeth Vander Lei" <BVLEI@calvin.edu>
> To: <teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com>
> Subject: Re: [Teaching_Composition] Discomfort and instructor
> perspectives
> Reply-To: teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com
>
> In my experience this is a mixed bag: in the same ESL writing classroom I
> would
> encounter students who were highly deferential and students who were
> conflicted
> between defering to my status as a professor and disregarding me because
> my
> gender is female. The mixed-bag-ness of the people in a classroom, of the
> power
> relations in the classroom, of the desires of those in the classroom make
> all
> this tricky business.
>
> Elizabeth Vander Lei
> Associate Professor of English
> Calvin College
> 1795 Knollcrest Circle SE
> Grand Rapids, MI 49546-4404
> 616.526.6434
>
> >>> The Teach <ababion@siue.edu> 9/20/2006 10:28 PM >>>
> > seriously and as important for learning. Many students can handle
> > themselves with respect to other students when the environment is
> > supportive. The role of the teacher is crucial here.
> I agree. Anytime a level of discomfort occurs during discussion, the
> instructor must model behavior and encourage mutual respect.
>
> > I teach first-year composition to ESL students. Many of my students'
> > cultures believe that to disagree with an instructor is to show great
> > disrespect to the instructor. If I voice my opinion, their cultures
> > restrain them from further exploration of issues.
>
> Of course it depends upon the particular culture, but also I suggest the
> gender of the teacher can be a factor. I have been told by female
> instructors teaching ESL classes that they are challenged as the authority
> figure and that the students do not want to accept what the female
> instructor offers in a discussion.
>
> It does not occur with all nationalities, but is something that I have
> been told more than once by the female ESL teachers.
>
> What think ye?
>
> alex
> _______________________________________________
> Teaching_Composition maillist - Teaching_Composition@mailman.eppg.com
> http://mailman.eppg.com/mailman/listinfo/teaching_composition
>
> To unsubscribe, please visit
> http://mailman.eppg.com/mailman/listinfo/teaching_composition and update
> your information.
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> Teaching_Composition maillist - Teaching_Composition@mailman.eppg.com
> http://mailman.eppg.com/mailman/listinfo/teaching_composition
>
>
> End of Teaching_Composition Digest
>
--
Charles Nelson, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of ESL Writing
English Department
Kean University
Tel: (908) 737-0393
Fax: (908) 737-0375
charles.p.nelson@gmail.com
http://www.kean.edu/~cnelson
------=_Part_4461_12282391.1159018341528
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Just a quick note. Teaching, whether ESL or non-ESL, is always a "tricky" business and a "mixed bag." And, yes, some cultures can regard women as having less authority than men. My impression, based on conversations with women colleagues, is that women can be perceived as holding authority when appealing to other values of their students, such as dressing more formally, having a more formal classroom management style, and so on. I was at conference last year in which most of the participants were Turkish. All who could speak English except one presented in English. That one was a woman, I believe a retired professor. I asked her if she addressed the audience in Turkish for reasons of having more authority, and she said yes. I asked her that question in part because, despite my lack of Turkish knowledge, she came across as having authority.
<br><br>Charles Nelson<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 9/21/06, <b class="gmail_sendername"><a href="mailto:teaching_composition-request@mailman.eppg.com">teaching_composition-request@mailman.eppg.com</a></b> <
<a href="mailto:teaching_composition-request@mailman.eppg.com">teaching_composition-request@mailman.eppg.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Send Teaching_Composition mailing list submissions to<br> <a href="mailto:teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com">teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com</a><br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
<br> <a href="http://mailman.eppg.com/mailman/listinfo/teaching_composition">http://mailman.eppg.com/mailman/listinfo/teaching_composition</a><br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:teaching_composition-request@mailman.eppg.com">teaching_composition-request@mailman.eppg.com</a><br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br> <a href="mailto:teaching_composition-admin@mailman.eppg.com">
teaching_composition-admin@mailman.eppg.com</a><br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of Teaching_Composition digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br>
1. Discomfort and instructor perspectives (Charles Nelson)<br> 2. Re: Discomfort and instructor perspectives (The Teach)<br> 3. Re: Discomfort and instructor<br> perspectives (Elizabeth Vander Lei)<br><br>--__--__--
<br><br>Message: 1<br>From: Charles Nelson <<a href="mailto:charles.p.nelson@gmail.com">charles.p.nelson@gmail.com</a>><br>Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 22:06:49 -0400<br>To: <a href="mailto:teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com">
teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com</a><br>Subject: [Teaching_Composition] Discomfort and instructor perspectives<br>Reply-To: <a href="mailto:teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com">teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com
</a><br><br>I agree that discomfort, as Bernard put it, can help us "to probe<br>further". And I like the way that Kate would encourage students to<br>enter the discourse and even make "a case for a change in the
<br>discourse." One point I'd like to elaborate on is the type of<br>discomfort that is useful for learning.<br><br>Discomfort is likely to arise whenever a student perceives him/<br>herself as part of a small minority in the classroom, but that
<br>discomfort is a natural part of learning to reflect on one's<br>perspectives. A discomfort that arises from what a student perceives<br>as a denigration of his or her perspective, however, does not promote<br>but silences participation and learning. (I'm not suggesting that
<br>anyone here is promoting that sort of discomfort.) That perception<br>may be accurate or inaccurate. The point is that instructors need to<br>actively and be perceived by students as actively promoting an<br>environment in which a diversity of opinions is welcome, with each
<br>opinion considered seriously and as important for learning. Many<br>students can handle themselves with respect to other students when<br>the environment is supportive. The role of the teacher is crucial here.<br><br>
As you've noticed, I don't support instructors bringing their own<br>perspectives into the classroom. I teach first-year composition to<br>ESL students. Many of my students' cultures believe that to disagree<br>with an instructor is to show great disrespect to the instructor. If
<br>I voice my opinion, their cultures restrain them from further<br>exploration of issues. If I wish to encourage them to think<br>critically and participate in a discourse, I have to refrain from<br>interjecting my opinions, at least most of the time, and focus
<br>instead on the nature of the discourse that can enable students to<br>participate in the academy.<br><br><br><br>--__--__--<br><br>Message: 2<br>Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 21:28:15 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)<br>From: The Teach <
<a href="mailto:ababion@siue.edu">ababion@siue.edu</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com">teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [Teaching_Composition] Discomfort and instructor perspectives
<br>Reply-To: <a href="mailto:teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com">teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com</a><br><br>> seriously and as important for learning. Many students can handle<br>> themselves with respect to other students when the environment is
<br>> supportive. The role of the teacher is crucial here.<br>I agree. Anytime a level of discomfort occurs during discussion, the<br>instructor must model behavior and encourage mutual respect.<br><br>> I teach first-year composition to ESL students. Many of my students'
<br>> cultures believe that to disagree with an instructor is to show great<br>> disrespect to the instructor. If I voice my opinion, their cultures<br>> restrain them from further exploration of issues.<br><br>Of course it depends upon the particular culture, but also I suggest the
<br>gender of the teacher can be a factor. I have been told by female<br>instructors teaching ESL classes that they are challenged as the authority<br>figure and that the students do not want to accept what the female<br>
instructor offers in a discussion.<br><br>It does not occur with all nationalities, but is something that I have<br>been told more than once by the female ESL teachers.<br><br>What think ye?<br><br>alex<br><br>--__--__--<br>
<br>Message: 3<br>Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:45:06 -0400<br>From: "Elizabeth Vander Lei" <<a href="mailto:BVLEI@calvin.edu">BVLEI@calvin.edu</a>><br>To: <<a href="mailto:teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com">
teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Teaching_Composition] Discomfort and instructor<br> perspectives<br>Reply-To: <a href="mailto:teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com">teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com
</a><br><br>In my experience this is a mixed bag: in the same ESL writing classroom I would<br>encounter students who were highly deferential and students who were conflicted<br>between defering to my status as a professor and disregarding me because my
<br>gender is female. The mixed-bag-ness of the people in a classroom, of the power<br>relations in the classroom, of the desires of those in the classroom make all<br>this tricky business.<br><br>Elizabeth Vander Lei<br>
Associate Professor of English<br>Calvin College<br>1795 Knollcrest Circle SE<br>Grand Rapids, MI 49546-4404<br>616.526.6434<br><br>>>> The Teach <<a href="mailto:ababion@siue.edu">ababion@siue.edu</a>> 9/20/2006 10:28 PM >>>
<br>> seriously and as important for learning. Many students can handle<br>> themselves with respect to other students when the environment is<br>> supportive. The role of the teacher is crucial here.<br>I agree. Anytime a level of discomfort occurs during discussion, the
<br>instructor must model behavior and encourage mutual respect.<br><br>> I teach first-year composition to ESL students. Many of my students'<br>> cultures believe that to disagree with an instructor is to show great
<br>> disrespect to the instructor. If I voice my opinion, their cultures<br>> restrain them from further exploration of issues.<br><br>Of course it depends upon the particular culture, but also I suggest the<br>gender of the teacher can be a factor. I have been told by female
<br>instructors teaching ESL classes that they are challenged as the authority<br>figure and that the students do not want to accept what the female<br>instructor offers in a discussion.<br><br>It does not occur with all nationalities, but is something that I have
<br>been told more than once by the female ESL teachers.<br><br>What think ye?<br><br>alex<br>_______________________________________________<br>Teaching_Composition maillist - <a href="mailto:Teaching_Composition@mailman.eppg.com">
Teaching_Composition@mailman.eppg.com</a><br><a href="http://mailman.eppg.com/mailman/listinfo/teaching_composition">http://mailman.eppg.com/mailman/listinfo/teaching_composition</a><br><br>To unsubscribe, please visit<br>
<a href="http://mailman.eppg.com/mailman/listinfo/teaching_composition">http://mailman.eppg.com/mailman/listinfo/teaching_composition</a> and update<br>your information.<br><br><br>--__--__--<br><br>_______________________________________________
<br>Teaching_Composition maillist - <a href="mailto:Teaching_Composition@mailman.eppg.com">Teaching_Composition@mailman.eppg.com</a><br><a href="http://mailman.eppg.com/mailman/listinfo/teaching_composition">http://mailman.eppg.com/mailman/listinfo/teaching_composition
</a><br><br><br>End of Teaching_Composition Digest<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Charles Nelson, Ph.D.<br>Assistant Professor of ESL Writing<br>English Department<br>Kean University<br>Tel: (908) 737-0393
<br>Fax: (908) 737-0375<br><a href="mailto:charles.p.nelson@gmail.com">charles.p.nelson@gmail.com</a><br><a href="http://www.kean.edu/~cnelson">http://www.kean.edu/~cnelson</a>
------=_Part_4461_12282391.1159018341528--