[Teaching_Composition] Critical vs Radical
Kathy Fitch
teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com
Tue, 3 Oct 2006 16:09:40 -0500
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And yet, Bill, you chose an exceedingly benign description of critical
pedagogy the first time round, which I why I raised the question. Teaching
toward thinking and teaching what to think are not, I think, the same.
Questioning and examining relationships to pets, say, is not the same as
unraveling them to the point where "exploitative" is the only correct way
(or cast as the obviously superior way, from the grade-wielding teacher's
perspective) to see the thing.
I've not met many students who truly prefer to write boring essays-or boring
anything. Students don't enjoy being bored. Perhaps, confronted with a
teacher who assumes that they can only write vapidly about pets-or
whatever-(joy, apparently, being vapid, though I'd argue that it's actually
one of the more complicated states of mind to write about well), boring
seems the safest way out. Saying nothing much at all leaves few openings
for the teacher to attack one's apparently inferior mind. If students
carefully master the art (it is one, for sure) of saying nothing much of
note at whatever length is required to fulfill the assignment, why be
shocked, under the circumstances? Seems a smart solution to me.
This bit
<<Probably my most important response to Kathy's last two posts is to
counter her position about the illegitimacy of having an ideological goal in
mind that ideally would result in change for students. >>
Is not a countering but a reiteration of my stance. Education results in
change. Clearly, we share a hope that it's change for the better, or we
wouldn't bother. Aiming for a *specific* change (e.g. you can't be one of
those damned right-wing extremists anymore if you're a *real* thinker, or
vice-versa) is another thing.
And this
<<I would prefer instructors who might get too pushy and force students to
actually consider an alternative perspective than an instructor who says,
"Hands off" and helps a student create an argument that claims, for example,
the poor and homeless are just lazy. >>
so extraordinary that I'm not sure where to start. I'll just say that it
seems to me that there is more than one way to write well about poverty and
homelessness. I could help a student write an essay that took a
conservative stance toward these things. But, I don't begin with the notion
that this would entail constructing a "they're just lazy," argument, anymore
than I would begin with the assumption that a more liberal take on things
would amount to "they're just victims." So, yes, I see a huge difference
indeed between questioning and examining and narrowly unraveling. We
question and examine to enrich and deepen our understanding, whichever
direction (there are many, bound to shift over our lifetimes if questioning
and examining get to be skills and then habits) they might lead us in.
Merely unraveling-just breaking some select set of things-is something else.
You seem to see an awful lot of such things in students that you wish to
break!
Maybe "raveling" is better diction, since it contains both the notion of
undoing and the notion of creating. I'm after both, I suppose. Take the
thing apart to see how it's put together, then make it (or something to take
its place) anew, with your new insight into its structure and function to
enrich you. To me, there's joy in that, and joy in watching students learn
how to do it-seeing the sparks fly.
Your take on students-that they prefer the easy way out, that they lean
toward the simplistic, that they'd tend toward a "they're just lazy" take on
the world if we didn't somehow disabuse them of such inferior views, or save
them from such simple ways-seems terribly bleak, and not a little insulting.
I love to write, so if I found myself in, for instance, the spot of having
to write the pets paper in the kind of confrontational class you describe,
I'd probably write the hell out of the joy one, just to be a snot-maybe hand
it in while the ink on drop slip was still wet. But what of the students
who come to us with less confidence, less spirit, less writing skill, less
willingness to tick off teacher? Their unraveling is, to me, a
heartrending thing.
Kathy
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>And yet, Bill, you chose an =
exceedingly
benign description of critical pedagogy the first time round, which I =
why I
raised the question. Teaching toward thinking and teaching what to =
think
are not, I think, the same. Questioning and examining =
relationships
to pets, say, is not the same as unraveling them to the point where =
“exploitative”
is the only correct way (or cast as the obviously superior way, from the
grade-wielding teacher’s perspective) to see the =
thing.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’ve not met many students =
who truly
prefer to write boring essays—or boring anything. Students =
don’t
enjoy being bored. Perhaps, confronted with a teacher who assumes =
that
they can only write vapidly about pets—or whatever—(joy,
apparently, being vapid, though I’d argue that it’s actually =
one of
the more complicated states of mind to write about well), boring seems =
the safest
way out. Saying nothing much at all leaves few =
openings for
the teacher to attack one’s apparently inferior mind. If =
students
carefully master the art (it is one, for sure) of saying nothing much of =
note at
whatever length is required to fulfill the assignment, why be shocked, =
under
the circumstances? Seems a smart solution to =
me.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This =
bit<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><<Probably my most important
response to Kathy’s last two posts is to counter her position =
about the
illegitimacy of having an ideological goal in mind that ideally would =
result in
change for students. >> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Is not a countering but a =
reiteration of
my stance. Education results in change. Clearly, we share a =
hope
that it’s change for the better, or we wouldn’t =
bother. Aiming
for a *<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>s</span>pecific</b>* change =
(e.g. you
can’t be one of those damned right-wing extremists anymore if =
you’re
a *<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>real</span></b>* thinker, or =
vice-versa)
is another thing. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>And =
this<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><<I would prefer instructors =
who
might get too pushy and force students to actually consider an =
alternative
perspective than an instructor who says, “Hands off” and =
helps a
student create an argument that claims, for example, the poor and =
homeless are
just lazy. >><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>so extraordinary that I’m not =
sure
where to start. I’ll just say that it seems to me that there is =
more than
one way to write well about poverty and homelessness. I could help =
a
student write an essay that took a conservative stance toward these
things. But, I don’t begin with the notion that this would =
entail
constructing a “they’re just lazy,” argument, anymore =
than I
would begin with the assumption that a more liberal take on things would =
amount
to “they’re just victims.” So, yes, I see a huge
difference indeed between questioning and examining and narrowly =
unraveling.
We question and examine to enrich and deepen our understanding, =
whichever
direction (there are many, bound to shift over our lifetimes if =
questioning and
examining get to be skills and then habits) they might lead us in. =
Merely
unraveling—just breaking some select set of things—is =
something
else. You seem to see an awful lot of such things in students that =
you
wish to break!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Maybe “raveling” is =
better
diction, since it contains both the notion of undoing and the notion of
creating. I’m after both, I suppose. Take the thing =
apart to
see how it’s put together, then make it (or something to take its =
place)
anew, with your new insight into its structure and function to enrich =
you.
To me, there’s joy in that, and joy in watching students learn how =
to do
it—seeing the sparks fly. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Your take on students—that =
they
prefer the easy way out, that they lean toward the simplistic, that =
they’d
tend toward a “they’re just lazy” take on the world if =
we
didn’t somehow disabuse them of such inferior views, or save them =
from such
simple ways—seems terribly bleak, and not a little =
insulting.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I love to write, so if I found =
myself in,
for instance, the spot of having to write the pets paper in the kind of
confrontational class you describe, I’d probably write the hell =
out of
the joy one, just to be a snot—maybe hand it in while the ink on =
drop
slip was still wet. But what of the students who come to us with =
less
confidence, less spirit, less writing skill, less willingness to tick =
off
teacher? Their unraveling is, to me, a heartrending =
thing.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Kathy<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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