[Teaching_Composition] (no subject)
Irvin Peckham
teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com
Wed, 22 Nov 2006 05:06:56 -0800
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Just a quick point-like everyone else, I am supposed to be doing something
else. I think I have tried to post about this conversation but I suspect I
am in cyberspace because I changed email over to gmail (worth doing).l
We want to teach our students how to scope out genres-and to some extent how
genres work, come into and out of being. Having them recognize the
relationships between social class and who gets to speak in which genres
would be a real plus, but we're not getting there in 1styear comp.
But here's my point: my job is to help students negotiate the writing
demands they will meet in other courses. I'm quite happy to take on this
responsibility---everyone will recognize that I' an ant going after an
elephant's fare.
Nevertheless, let me say this: we have researched here the kinds of
rhetorical demands they are likely to meet by soliciting from a wide range
of professors their specific writing tasks. Many of these tasks were
sophisticated, requiring specific cognitive and writing skills. They also
made some assumptions of acquired writing skills If our purpose is to help
our students negotiate these demands, we can target some genres and even a
sequence of genres that will help students do that. This seems to me to be
a reasonable goal, particularly for those students who come from different
linguistic and social groups than the one we are in and whose linguistic and
cognitive skills we have naturalized.
Irv
Russ Hunt <hunt@stu.ca>
to teaching_compo.
show details
6:20 pm (58 minutes ago)
I want to pose a question about what Matthew Parfitt says:
> I think our students at Boston U need to become
> able to recognize and reproduce academic discourse conventions, but
> I think they are better able to do so when they can see these
> conventions in relation to other discourse conventions. So I try to
> expose them to periodical essays, personal essays, academic essays,
> experimental essays, etc., in order to illustrate how genres (or
> subgenres, if you prefer) express purpose and audience.
Agreed, but I wonder about what we all mean by "expose them to."
There's a temptation here to think of those genres as fixed entities
and assume that somehow we could introduce them to them, like learning
various kinds of joinery (rabbeting, dovetailing, etc.) -- when really
what we need to be doing is helping them learn how to join in the
_invention_ of genres and become sensitive to disjunctions between
their discourse and the genres they're living in. I think they do that
by dwelling in authentic generic situations (which might be included
under "expose them to," but might not, too).
So I agreen entirely with this:
> I think
> they produce better academic writing better when they understand the
> conventions not as rules they must follow in their school writing,
> but as malleable practices that serve the particular purposes of the
> academy. Other subgenres serve other purposes.
=========================================
Irvin Peckham
Director of the University Writing Program
Louisiana State University
ipeckham44@gmail.com
http://www.english.lsu.edu/programs/dept/ugrad/firstyear/
225-772-5963
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Just a quick point—like everyone else, I am =
supposed
to be doing something else. I think I have tried to post about =
this
conversation but I suspect I am in cyberspace because I changed email =
over to
gmail (worth doing).l<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>We want to teach our students how to scope out =
genres—and
to some extent how genres work, come into and out of being. Having =
them
recognize the relationships between social class and who gets to speak =
in which
genres would be a real plus, but we’re not getting there in =
1styear comp.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>But here’s my point: my job is to help =
students
negotiate the writing demands they will meet in other courses. =
I’m
quite happy to take on this responsibility---everyone will recognize =
that I’
an ant going after an elephant’s fare. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Nevertheless, let me say this: we have =
researched here
the kinds of rhetorical demands they are likely to meet by soliciting =
from a
wide range of professors their specific writing tasks. Many of =
these
tasks were sophisticated, requiring specific cognitive and writing =
skills.
They also made some assumptions of acquired writing skills =
<i><span
style=3D'font-style:italic'>If</span></i> our purpose is to help our =
students
negotiate these demands, we can target some genres and even a sequence =
of
genres that will help students do that. This seems to me to be a
reasonable goal, particularly for those students who come from different =
linguistic
and social groups than the one we are in and whose linguistic and =
cognitive
skills we have naturalized.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Irv<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#5b1094" =
face=3DArial><span
=
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#5B1094;font-weight:bold=
'>Russ
Hunt <hunt@stu.ca></span></span></font></b><b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
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cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"
style=3D'width:100.0%'>
<tr>
<td nowrap valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.6pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;
font-family:Arial'>to <span id=3D"_mr_10f0d83d2b09f996_0"><span
=
id=3D"_upro_teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com">teaching_compo.</span>=
<o:p></o:p></span></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
<td nowrap valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.6pt 0in 0in 2.4pt'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><u><font =
size=3D2
color=3D"#80aaf8" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:#80AAF8'>show details<o:p></o:p></span></font></u></p>
</td>
<td nowrap valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.6pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial'> <span
id=3D"_date_Tue Nov 21 2006_6:20 PM">6:20 pm (58 minutes =
ago) </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan=3D4 style=3D'padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><script>
<!--=0A=
D(["mb","<div style\u003d\"direction:ltr\"><span class\u003dq>I want to =
pose a question about what Matthew Parfitt says:<br /><br />> I think =
our students at Boston U need to become<br />> able to recognize and =
reproduce academic discourse conventions, but<br />> I think they are =
better able to do so when they can see these<br />> conventions in =
relation to other discourse conventions. So I try to<br />> =
expose them to periodical essays, personal essays, academic essays,<br =
/>> experimental essays, etc., in order to illustrate how genres =
(or<br />> subgenres, if you prefer) express purpose and audience.<br =
/><br /></span></div>",1]=0A=
);=0A=
D(["mb","<div style\u003d\"direction:ltr\">Agreed, but I wonder about =
what we all mean by "expose them to."<br />There\'s a =
temptation here to think of those genres as fixed entities<br />and =
assume that somehow we could introduce them to them, like learning<br =
/>various kinds of joinery (rabbeting, dovetailing, etc.) -- when =
really<br />what we need to be doing is helping them learn how to join =
in the<br />_invention_ of genres and become sensitive to disjunctions =
between<br />their discourse and the genres they\'re living in. I think =
they do that<br />by dwelling in authentic generic situations (which =
might be included<br />under "expose them to," but might not, =
too).<br /><br />So I agreen entirely with this:<br /></div>",1]=0A=
);=0A=
=0A=
//-->
</script></span></font><span class=3Dq1><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#550055"
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial'>I want =
to pose a
question about what Matthew Parfitt says:</span></font></span><font =
size=3D2
color=3D"#550055" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:#550055'><br>
<br>
<span class=3Dq1><font color=3D"#550055">> I think our students at =
Boston U
need to become</font></span><br>
<span class=3Dq1><font color=3D"#550055">> able to recognize and =
reproduce
academic discourse conventions, but</font></span><br>
<span class=3Dq1><font color=3D"#550055">> I think they are better =
able to do
so when they can see these</font></span><br>
<span class=3Dq1><font color=3D"#550055">> conventions in relation =
to other
discourse conventions. So I try to</font></span><br>
<span class=3Dq1><font color=3D"#550055">> expose them to =
periodical essays,
personal essays, academic essays,</font></span><br>
<span class=3Dq1><font color=3D"#550055">> experimental essays, =
etc., in order
to illustrate how genres (or</font></span><br>
<span class=3Dq1><font color=3D"#550055">> subgenres, if you =
prefer) express
purpose and audience.</font></span></span></font><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
=
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;
font-family:Arial'>Agreed, but I wonder about what we all mean by
"expose them to."<br>
There's a temptation here to think of those genres as fixed =
entities<br>
and assume that somehow we could introduce them to them, like =
learning<br>
various kinds of joinery (rabbeting, dovetailing, etc.) -- when =
really<br>
what we need to be doing is helping them learn how to join in the<br>
_invention_ of genres and become sensitive to disjunctions between<br>
their discourse and the genres they're living in. I think they do =
that<br>
by dwelling in authentic generic situations (which might be =
included<br>
under "expose them to," but might not, too).<br>
<br>
So I agreen entirely with this:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;
font-family:Arial'><script>
<!--=0A=
D(["mb","<div style\u003d\"direction:ltr\"><span class\u003dq><br />> =
I think<br />> they produce better academic writing better when =
they understand the<br />> conventions not as rules they must follow =
in their school writing,<br />> but as malleable practices that serve =
the particular purposes of the<br />> academy. Other subgenres =
serve other purposes.<br /><br /></span></div>",1]=0A=
);=0A=
D(["mb","<div style\u003d\"direction:ltr\">But that =
"understanding" is hard come by.<br /></div>",1]=0A=
);=0A=
=0A=
//-->
</script><font color=3D"#550055"><span style=3D'color:#550055'><br>
<span class=3Dq1><font color=3D"#550055">> I =
think</font></span><br>
<span class=3Dq1><font color=3D"#550055">> they produce =
better academic
writing better when they understand the</font></span><br>
<span class=3Dq1><font color=3D"#550055">> conventions not as rules =
they must
follow in their school writing,</font></span><br>
<span class=3Dq1><font color=3D"#550055">> but as malleable =
practices that
serve the particular purposes of the</font></span><br>
<span class=3Dq1><font color=3D"#550055">> academy. Other =
subgenres
serve other =
purposes.</font></span></span></font><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</sp=
an></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Irvin Peckham</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Director of the University Writing =
Program</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName =
w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Louisiana</span></font></st1=
:PlaceName><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <st1:PlaceType
w:st=3D"on">State</st1:PlaceType> <st1:PlaceType =
w:st=3D"on">University</st1:PlaceType></span></font></st1:place><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><a =
href=3D"mailto:ipeckham44@gmail.com">ipeckham44@gmail.com</a></span></fon=
t><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><a
href=3D"http://www.english.lsu.edu/programs/dept/ugrad/firstyear/">http:/=
/www.english.lsu.edu/programs/dept/ugrad/firstyear/</a></span></font><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>225-772-5963</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<=
/span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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