[Teaching_Composition] Academic Discourse

Tue, 21 Nov 2006 09:40:23 -0500

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The way I have worded this in our outcomes statement here at Akron is
that we are teaching rhetorical principles or concepts that students
then can take with them to future writing tasks, whether in college or
elsewhere.  Following the WPA Outcomes Statement, I also included an
outcome of "versatility," which seems to parallel what Linda is saying
about promoting "flexibility" in writers.  I'm glad to see this strand
appear.  One of the problems I have with Graff and Birkenstein's very
popular They Say, I Say is that what we call "academic writing"
(something I don't think really exists in any pure form) is privileged
at the expense of rhetorical situations dependent on an understanding of
audience and purpose.  We're replacing writing with formulas based on a
type of discourse, as Russ suggests, that doesn't translate well in
real-world situations.

=20

Bill

=20

________________________________

From: teaching_composition-admin@mailman.eppg.com
[mailto:teaching_composition-admin@mailman.eppg.com] On Behalf Of Linda
Adler-Kassner
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 8:14 AM
To: teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com
Subject: Re: [Teaching_Composition] Academic Discourse

=20

Just to second or third or fourth Rich's and Russ's comments: I think we
do students - and our profession -  a service when we help them realize
(as we all do) that while we can't "prepare" them for a specific _kind_
(/genre) of writing, we can help them develop _flexibility as writers._
After all, we can't know every genre. But we can know how to help
students develop the strategies they need to analyze audience
expectations; develop a variety of writing strategies and think about
when, where, and why to use them; know how to develop even more
strategies; make conscious choices.... After all, that's what writers
do.

-Linda

On Nov 20, 2006, at 9:25 PM, Russ Hunt wrote:

Like Rich Haswell,

=20

	I'm happy to see someone questioning the focus on "academic
writing" in the current college-writing curriculum, and questioning it
in the

	interest of the kinds of writing students will do after college.

=20

We need to bear in mind, too, that we can't anticipate what those kinds
of writing will be, and even if we could we probably couldn't "teach"
them. A book which makes a similar argument to Anne Beaufort's _Writing
in the Real World_, but with piles of real-world empirical evidence, is
_Worlds Apart_, by Aviva Freedman, Patrick Dias, Anthony Pare and Peter
Medway. They followed writers moving out of pre-professional programs of
various kinds and into professions. Their work convinces me that the
best I can hope for is to help students learn how to figure out and
adapt to the new genres they'll encounter in whatever they do. One thng
we can be sure of, though: the classroom essay almost certainly won't be
one of them (even if they become academics).

=20

-- Russ

=20

Russell Hunt

Department of English

St. Thomas University

http://www.stu.ca/~hunt/

_______________________________________________

Teaching_Composition maillist  -  Teaching_Composition@mailman.eppg.com

http://mailman.eppg.com/mailman/listinfo/teaching_composition

=20

To unsubscribe, please visit
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----

Linda Adler-Kassner, Ph.D.

Director of First-Year Writing

Associate Professor

Department of English Language and Literature

Eastern Michigan University

612 Pray-Harrold

Ypsilanti, MI 48197

734.487.0148 (o) 734.483.9744 (fax)

http://www.emich.edu/english/fycomp/

=20

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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The way I have worded this in our =
outcomes
statement here at Akron is that we are teaching rhetorical principles or
concepts that students then can take with them to future writing tasks, =
whether
in college or elsewhere.&nbsp; Following the WPA Outcomes Statement, I =
also
included an outcome of &#8220;versatility,&#8221; which seems to =
parallel what
Linda is saying about promoting &#8220;flexibility&#8221; in =
writers.&nbsp; I&#8217;m
glad to see this strand appear.&nbsp; One of the problems I have with =
Graff and
Birkenstein&#8217;s very popular <u>They Say, I Say</u> is that what we =
call &#8220;academic
writing&#8221; (something I don&#8217;t think really exists in any pure =
form)
is privileged at the expense of rhetorical situations dependent on an
understanding of audience and purpose.&nbsp; We&#8217;re replacing =
writing with
formulas based on a type of discourse, as Russ suggests, that =
doesn&#8217;t
translate well in real-world situations.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bill<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
teaching_composition-admin@mailman.eppg.com
[mailto:teaching_composition-admin@mailman.eppg.com] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Linda Adler-Kassner<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, November =
21, 2006
8:14 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
teaching_composition@mailman.eppg.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re:
[Teaching_Composition] Academic Discourse</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

Just to second or third or fourth Rich's and Russ's comments: I =
think
we do students - and our profession -&nbsp; a service when we help them =
realize
(as we all do) that while we can't &quot;prepare&quot; them for a =
specific
_kind_ (/genre) of writing, we can help them develop _flexibility as =
writers._
After all, we can't know every genre. But we can know how to help =
students
develop the strategies they need to analyze audience expectations; =
develop a
variety of writing strategies and think about when, where, and why to =
use them;
know how to develop even more strategies; make conscious choices.... =
After all,
that's what writers do.<o:p></o:p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>-Linda<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>On Nov 20, 2006, at 9:25 PM, Russ Hunt =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Like Rich Haswell,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'min-height: 14px'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=3Dcite>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>I'm happy to see someone questioning the focus on &quot;academic
writing&quot; in the current college-writing curriculum, and questioning =
it in
the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>interest of the kinds of writing students will do after =
college.<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</blockquote>

<div style=3D'min-height: 14px'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

We need to bear in mind, too, that we can't anticipate what =
those kinds
of writing will be, and even if we could we probably couldn't =
&quot;teach&quot;
them. A book which makes a similar argument to Anne Beaufort's _Writing =
in the
Real World_, but with piles of real-world empirical evidence, is _Worlds
Apart_, by Aviva Freedman, Patrick Dias, Anthony Pare and Peter Medway. =
They
followed writers moving out of pre-professional programs of various =
kinds and
into professions. Their work convinces me that the best I can hope for =
is to
help students learn how to figure out and adapt to the new genres =
they'll
encounter in whatever they do. One thng we can be sure of, though: the
classroom essay almost certainly won't be one of them (even if they =
become
academics).<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div style=3D'min-height: 14px'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>-- Russ<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'min-height: 14px'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Russell Hunt<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Department of English<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName =
w:st=3D"on">St. =
Thomas</st1:PlaceName>
 <st1:PlaceType =
w:st=3D"on">University</st1:PlaceType></st1:place><o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><a =
href=3D"http://www.stu.ca/~hunt/">http://www.stu.ca/~hunt/</a><o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
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<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DHelvetica><span
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Linda =
Adler-Kassner,
Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DHelvetica><span
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Director of
First-Year Writing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DHelvetica><span
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Associate =
Professor<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DHelvetica><span
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Department =
of English
Language and Literature<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DHelvetica><span
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Eastern =
<st1:place
w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Michigan</st1:PlaceName> =
<st1:PlaceType
 =
w:st=3D"on">University</st1:PlaceType></st1:place><o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

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<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DHelvetica><span
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<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on"><font =
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  color=3Dblack face=3DHelvetica><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;
  color:black'>Ypsilanti</span></font></st1:City><font size=3D1 =
color=3Dblack
 face=3DHelvetica><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>,
 <st1:State w:st=3D"on">MI</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode =
w:st=3D"on">48197</st1:PostalCode></span></font></st1:place><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DHelvetica><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DHelvetica><span
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>734.487.0148 =
(o)
734.483.9744 (fax)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DHelvetica><span
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><a
href=3D"http://www.emich.edu/english/fycomp/">http://www.emich.edu/englis=
h/fycomp/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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